Episode 73: Immigration and Human Suffering

What if public safety isn’t about bigger dragnets but about deeper trust? We take a hard look at recent immigration enforcement actions—from major cities to smaller communities—and ask whether sweeping raids, status revocations, and third-country deportations make anyone safer. The stakes become painfully clear as we reflect on the reported killings of Renee Good and Alex Pretti in Minnesota and confront a pattern of unequal outrage when victims are people of color. When dignity is optional, rights become negotiable; when leaders reward lies, the system below them bends.

We walk through how dehumanization takes root: rhetoric that paints neighbors as threats, policies that blur due process, and operations that net legal residents alongside suspects. Then we get practical. We share specific steps to turn outrage into action: speak up in your circles with clarity and respect, write your representatives, show up at public forums, and ask for evidence instead of slogans. We talk about voting with facts rather than fear, setting nonnegotiables like truth, targeted enforcement, and constitutional protections, and refusing to excuse cruelty because it helps “our side.”

Faith and ethics run through this conversation—not as a weapon, but as a spine. Love your neighbor becomes a civic practice: do not tie your success to someone else’s misery, and don’t call harm “order.” Real safety is precise: pursue violent offenders with focus, protect the innocent with discipline, and restore trust by telling the truth even when it is costly. If you’re ready to replace performative outrage with steady action, this is a roadmap for building a community that values both security and humanity.

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Transcript

Opening Outrage And Core Questions

Grantley Martelly 0:00

We've seen that citizens are being killed in the street mow, and lying by administration of officials, misrepresentation of the facts, unquestionable investigation. How much is enough? Citizens who are exercising their constitutional rights are now being called domestic terrorists, while the true domestic terrorists have been pardoned. How is this just? How is it in the interests of national security and national protection? How does this make us safe when people are afraid to come out of their house? When people can no longer trust their leaders, how does it make us safer? Yes, we all want secure borders. We want criminal elements to be arrested and dealt with. We want murderers and rapists and child abusers to be dealt with. But what we have seen is that the net is so broad, it is being dragged so broad that even innocent people are being caught up in the net without regard for their rights. Today I want to talk about a topic that's dear to my heart. And you've seen it in the news. It's now worldwide news. It's been here, there, everywhere. You know, and on this podcast, I try to talk about issues that I believe affects people on a day-to-day basis around the world, because I understand that not everyone listens to this podcast lives in the United States. However, I believe there are things that affect all of us no matter where we live as we see things going on in the world, and some things become globally significant, regardless of what countries where the events are taking place. So today I want to talk to you about this topic of how much suffering and mistreatment of people is acceptable. We've seen on the news, we've seen the activities going on in the United States since the election of President Trump. We've seen the immigration and enforcement actions taking place around the country, beginning in places like Los Angeles, Washington, D.C., Portland, Oregon, Minnesota, and even as recently in Idaho. And what we're seeing is causing many of us to wonder how can we stoop to this low level of treating each other in this way in the name of power and privilege. Because let's face the fact, it is not about immigration enforcement, it is not about law and order. And I keep saying this over and over, it is about power and privilege and white supremacy and trying to prove to the world that we are better than anybody else. And if you are not one of us and if you are not with us, then this is what we think of you. Now, in previous episodes, I have addressed the immigration issue in multiple ways. In episode 66, I spoke about Beyond Fear, humanizing the immigration debate, where I talked about research that was done to show the value and the contributions that immigrants make to this country. No matter how we measure it, the contributions of immigrants make this country, and for the matter of fact, many other countries around the world work. In episode 68, I talk about repairing the immigration system. That is a broken system, and we all know it's broken. Every elected official knows it's broken. President and administration now for decades have known that it's broken, and none of them have had the courage and the will to address it. But it seems like we have the will and the courage to dehumanize people and to treat them as less than human. And in episode 71, I talked about the topic of same field, different game, where no matter what side you're on, we all seem to want the same thing. We want a safe country, we want criminals prosecuted, we want a place for our children to grow up safe and healthy. But the way we're going about it is completely different. And I spoke about the stretch for power and privilege and supremacy, and the tools that you use for that are not the same tools that you use for justice and equality and grace and mercy, and giving people an opportunity to contribute and to fulfill their life dreams. So now what we're seeing, especially in Minnesota, that has taken place in Minnesota, which is demonstrated across the country, is the immigration, the customs enforcement, invasion of that city, and resulting now in the death of Renier Good and Alex Predy, two American citizens who, from all indications, were unjustifiably shot. And we're going to talk about that some more. But I hate to say this, but it needs to be said. In the midst of that, what we saw was that the killing of two white American citizens raised a justified level of rage among the people and among the country and around the world. And that is great. But do we have a similar rage for the lives of people of color who are facing this kind of discrimination and this kind of abuse in many areas by ICE, by other forms of law enforcement, and by other systemic privileges that we have in this country? Some people have died at the hands of law enforcement and some people who have died in ICE custody. And those things do not seem to create a similar amount of rage. However, in this case, we are thankful that people are seeing that injustice is injustice and that we need to speak up about it where we see injustice. So I'm not thankful that these two people have lost their lives. That is nowhere to justify that. That is completely wrong. But what I'm saying is that if we're going to have rage about the unjust taking of people's lives, we should try to be intellectually honest about it and realize that there are other peoples whose lives are being taken in similar circumstances. And many of that goes without the same level of rage. So we'll take the rage and we'll move on for justice because sometimes to get justice there has to be rage. It is not acceptable for innocent people, citizen or not, to be rounded up and displaced. That's not acceptable. That is not what this country is about. It is not acceptable that white people have to die before murder is considered unacceptable. All people's lives should have value. It is not acceptable for political appointees to lie and to malign others for their personal gratification and hatred while supporting policies that are inhumane and unconstitutional. These things are not part of the fabric of what make us strong, of what makes us united, of what makes a country great. The dehumanizing of our citizens, the dehumanizing of our immigrants, taking advantage of the poor and people who are destitute, taking advantage of the vulnerable is not who we are. And we need to continue speaking up about it. Now, some of you may say Grantley's getting political in his podcast. And you may say that, but this is not about politics. This is about speaking up for those who don't have a voice. This is about what it means to be a good citizen and what it means to be a good neighbor. Unfortunately, many things in our life and in our world today are framed in politics. But this is not about politics. This is about human dignity. This is not about getting criminals off the street. Because the statistics for the action of ICE does not support that. Legal citizens and green card holders are also being detained. They're also being dragged out to their cars. They're also being raided. Many people with no criminal records have been arrested and deported to foreign countries. People have been hunted and stalked and raided, manhandled, some of them beaten, as we've seen by all these videos coming out of the cities, Los Angeles, Washington, D.C., Minneapolis, Minnesota. And they're being sent to foreign countries, not their own. If it was about deportation of people back to their countries, they should be being sent back to their countries. They're being sent to third countries that are not their own, where they have no connection. Under the rules of foreign governments who want to enrich themselves off of the US dollar that this administration is offering them to take these people into their country and some of them into their prisons. So treating them as criminals in that country in exchange for US dollars to prop up their own governments. People are being deprived of their rights to legal representation. And we know that is a foundational and a constitutional requirement in this country. People are being deprived of medical attention and medication. This has been verified by elected officials and state officials who have been to these detention centers, and by the stories of detainers who have been released after they were court-ordered to be released. And the stories from families about people who have been taken, who need medication, who need to be treated, people who get sick in these detention centers, like we have heard from some of the elected officials who are being given aspirin or ibuprofen instead of getting them the proper medical treatment. And we've seen that citizens are being killed in the street now, and lying by administration officials, misrepresentation of the facts, unquestionable investigation. How much is enough? How much is enough? I say enough is enough, and it's time that we begin to hold our leaders accountable for supporting this kind of behavior. Citizens who are exercising their constitutional rights are now being called domestic terrorists. While the true domestic terrorists have been pardoned, how is this just? How is it in the interest of national security and national protection? How does this make us safe when people are afraid to come out of their house? When people can no longer trust their leaders, trust their law enforcement in many areas. And I understand that many local law enforcement are not conspirators with the ICE and the federal enforcement. So when I speak, I speak about those who are committing these actions against the citizens and the legal residents of this country. How does it make us safer? Yes, we all want secure borders. We want criminal elements to be arrested and dealt with. We want murderers and rapists and child abusers and all the other terms that they're throwing around, yes, to be dealt with. But what we have seen is that the net is so broad, it is being dragged so broad that even innocent people are being caught up in the net without regard for their rights. This administration is making legally documented human beings and those with legally protected status into illegal immigrants, as they're calling them, by revoking their legal status and then saying that they're subject to deportation. They're literally creating their own field of operation. People who have been here legally and granted legal status, people who have had their green cards, people have been protected by international law, have now had their legal status questioned and in some cases removed and are now being subject to deportation. This is not about politics. This is about human rights. This is about dignity and justice. If this makes sense to you and the things that we are talking about make sense to you and you want to support it, subscribe to this podcast here on YouTube and follow us on our audio channels on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and any of your favorite channels. We have about 12 different channels that our podcast is on. And share your comments and text directly with me from the audio podcast as well. I would love to hear your thoughts and thank you for your support. Let's get back to the topic. And that would mostly have seen the social media depictions of President Obama and his wife as apes, clearly showing the true feelings of this administration towards people of color. It is the lowest form of racism, and there's no need for it, and it is unacceptable. But when you dehumanize people, and when you when you know when you see yourself as being better than them, or you create the us-them scenarios where we are better than them and we have to get it all, and they don't get any, when we start doing those kinds of things, we begin to excuse ourselves by doing those kinds of depictions and doing those kinds of forms of hatred. And think about the kind of mind and the kind of person it takes to create something like that and post it and then justify it. So how do we respond? Well, one thing I would say is to look with open eyes. Don't be misled by the rhetoric, don't be misled by the lies. Do not be told that what you are seeing or what you're hearing is not real and it's fake when it is real. When there are hundreds and thousands of verifications of witnesses who are showing that this is actually happening. Do not be misled. Do not call evil good and good evil. Do not misrepresent the facts because of your political affiliation. Do not allow it to lead you to be a debased human being. This is about basic human rights. Speak up and speak out when you have the opportunity to do so. It doesn't mean that we go to every protest and that we hold flags and signs up everywhere we go. It doesn't mean we go into meetings and try to break them up and scream at people. No. But each of us have the opportunities to speak, whether it's in our family or in our church or in our groups, where we are, and we hear somebody say something or something comes up. It gives us an opportunity to speak. We can write letters to our leaders. And yes, we can show up at public forums and we can we can give our opinion with decency and in order without necessarily creating a public unrest. Show up where we can speak up for the vulnerable. And it may not necessarily be about the ice raids or it may not necessarily be about immigration, but it may be other ways in which you are noticing that people in your community who are vulnerable are being taken advantage of. And hold your leaders locally, regionally, and nationally accountable. Hold our clergy accountable. Clergy are supposed to be leaders of righteousness and justice and mercy in their ministry, in their lifestyle, and their communities. And when we see that our religious leaders are not doing that, whether it's out of fear or whether it's out of callousness, or whether it's out of the fact that they're becoming politicized, we need to hold them accountable as well. Because people of faith, the religious community, the church, the synagogue, the places of worship are places where people are supposed to be able to go and find justice and mercy and not find people who call themselves by the name of God or by the followers of Christ, are just as hostile, just as vicious, just as discriminatory as the people outside of the house of worship. And we all have a right to vote. If you're a citizen of this country or your country, you have a right to vote and exercise that right. But don't vote out of fear or implicit bias. Vote out of looking at the facts. Vote by doing your own investigation, not just everything you see on 30-second spot or 50-second spot, 15-second spot on the television or a little pamphlet that's sent to your house, but do some research. We have tools around us. It is inexcusable today for us not to do our research with all the tools that we have around us and all the resources we have around us. So you don't vote out of fear or our own implicit bias, but vote out of what is right and what is for the greater good. Yes, each candidate may not represent everything that we want to see. And sometimes we have to admit we have to vote for the best or the worst candidates, because neither of them are that good. But we can set a standard for the things that are unacceptable and we can work towards that. We saw in this last election that some people voted out of fear and their implicit bias, and now those are coming back to Biden. Some people voted to protect their Second Amendment rights, the right to bear arms. And now we see that being called by the administration officials, they are now being called domestic terrorists by expressing the very right for which they thought they were voted for. We saw some people, some immigrants voted because they thought they were superior and protected, because I had my papers and I'm here legally and I have my citizenship. But now they come to realize that that protection may not even be what they thought it was. Because as I said earlier, we see those protections being taken away at the will of this administration. Farmers voted out of their own self-interest, but now they find it's hard to harvest their crops. They don't have people to harvest their crops. And when they do harvest them, they can't sell them because the prices are outrageous, or embargoes have been put against the countries where they intended to sell, and they can't get a good price for their hard work that they've put in over the year. Some wanted cheaper food and thought that would be brought there. But now the cost of food is more than it has ever been, and it keeps going up. Even though we hear that it is not going up, all the research and all the surveys are showing that people are saying it is costing more than ever to buy the basics. So when we void out of fear and implicit bias without thinking of the larger picture and what is for the greatest good, sometimes it comes back to give a bitter taste in our mouth. So what else can we do? What is my call to action? My first call to action is that we love one another. And you know that I I don't do these talks without bringing in the scripture because I believe the biblical scriptures are part of what we need to be getting back to in order to be getting back on the right path. Since to love our neighbor as ourselves and do not think of ourselves more highly than we ought to, but to think soberly and with good judgment. Love one another, do unto others as we would have done unto us. Do not rejoice in the suffering of others. What benefit is that? It doesn't benefit you or it doesn't benefit them to rejoice at their suffering, because you know and I know, except for the grace of God, we could be in that same position. And it doesn't, it doesn't help us. It doesn't help us financially, it doesn't help us mentally, it doesn't help us emotionally, it doesn't help us spiritually. So why do it? It just shows our bias. Do not tie your success to the misery of others. This is a natural corollary from the previous one. The fact that others have to suffer in order for me to do good is not based in reality. The world is big enough, and God has created this world big enough that we can all succeed at the same time. We can all be prosperous at the same time, we can all be generous at the same time. And one person does not have to suffer in order for me to be successful or in order for my family to have the things that we want to have. Hold strong to truth and integrity and demand it from our leaders. There's no substitute for truth and integrity. And when we find leaders who are not being truthful and they surround themselves by people who lack integrity and are not truthful, we need to hold them accountable and we need to not. Accept that simply because we like the person or because of their celebrity or because they have a million followers or because they have a title or elected office. It shouldn't matter. Truth and integrity should matter. Whoever you are, whatever you do, that should be a basic part of our lives. So seek the truth and seek people of integrity and leaders who are ethical and honest and have high moral compass. And yes, address crime. Require that crime is addressed. Require that we do not allow our people to live in fear of people who want to take advantage of them and destroy our communities. So let's address crime, but don't make criminals out of innocent people. There are enough criminals out there that we don't need to create criminals out of innocent people. And if our immigration and customs enforcement officials want to address criminals and get them out of this country, they will have lots of our support. But they need to be more prescribed, they need to be more surgical, and they need to have respect for other people's rights. And they need to take off those masks because if you know what you're doing is right, you don't have to hide behind the mask. You should be able to stand firm like every other law enforcement officer and do your job with integrity without having to hide behind the mask. Resist trying to justify injustice for political expedience. Call it what it is. Injustice is an injustice. Violating human dignity and treating people as less than is injustice. Withhold injustice from those to whom it is deserved is injustice. Call it what it is. And I'll end with this scriptural verse. If a leader pays attention to lies, all his officers will become wicked. That is from Proverbs chapter 29, verse 12. If a leader pays attention to lies, all his officers will become wicked. And we know from history that the book of Proverbs was written by a king, by a government official, by a person who was in leadership over millions of people. And he writes, if a leader pays attention to lies, all his officials will become wicked. And this I believe is what we're seeing. A leader who has paid attention to lies, and his officials have now demonstrated that in their wickedness. But I don't think it's it's too late. It is still time that we can turn this around. It is still time that we can get back to what is right, what is just, what is pure, what is lovely, what is of good report. It is still time that we can make justice and mercy and grace be the principles on which we operate. And it's still time that we can practice loving each other as ourselves. So share this episode with your friends, your family, and let me know what you think. Remember to subscribe and leave us a rating. And helping it become known to other people. Email us your comments at abovethenoise24@gmai.com abovethenoise24@gmail.com.. And follow us on Instagram and @abovethenoise24. Thank you for listening. Please share this episode with a friend.